Minister of Foreign Affairs Mélanie Joly responds to questions about the situation in Haiti during a news conference in Ottawa on March 25.Adrian Wyld/The Canadian Press
Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly says she didn’t soft-pedal Beijing’s interference in Canadian affairs or its human-rights record during blunt talks with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi last week, a one-day visit aimed at reopening channels of dialogue after six years of a deep freeze in bilateral relations.
Ms. Joly met with the Chinese foreign minister for three and a half hours at the Diaoyutai State Guest House in Beijing on Friday but the two ministers did not break any significant ground in strained bilateral relations. A major reset is unlikely in part because of unfavourable perceptions of China among Canadians, she said.
Polls in the last few years consistently show Canadians hold strongly negative views on China after its imprisonment of Canadians Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and revelations of Chinese government interference operations here that compelled Ottawa to establish a public inquiry.
“There are many things that we need to do before a formal reset. There are too many aspects core to our relationship that need to be addressed, including foreign interference, including trade issues,” Ms. Joly said in an exclusive interview with The Globe and Mail.
“It’s not the government. It’s more Canadian perceptions toward China, which are negative right now. And it’s important for China to understand that.”
Ms. Joly said China interfering in Canadian elections, setting up illegal police stations and bullying diaspora communities were all put on the table in Beijing, as were its intimidation and disinformation campaigns against members of Parliament.
“I raised it very firmly, and specifically because this is core to our national interests. So I said clearly that we would not tolerate any form of interference in our democracy, intimidation of our people and our politicians,” she said.
Ms. Joly said she referred to the public inquiry headed by Quebec Court of Appeal justice Marie-Josée Hogue that concluded in its first report in May that China is the “most persistent and sophisticated foreign interference threat to Canada at the moment.”
“I was able to present clear examples, and therefore was able to address directly the situation with him,” she said, but acknowledged that Mr. Wang denied that China interferes in the domestic affairs of other countries.
“I am not saying that they’re accepting of what Canada is presenting,” she said, but the forthright talk drove home the point: “They know this is core to our national interests. And that was the No. 1 issue that I raised with him.”
She also raised the expulsion of Chinese diplomat Zhao Wei last year after The Globe reported he had targeted Conservative foreign affairs critic Michael Chong and his relatives in Hong Kong in an attempt to gain leverage over the MP, who had sponsored a Commons motion on Beijing’s repression in Xinjiang.
“Diplomats need to stay in their lane, and they need to abide by the Vienna Convention. So when they don’t, there are consequences,” Ms. Joly said. “That’s why having a clear conversation with China – that this is happening in our jurisdiction, we know about it – but also you can’t overlook it.”
On trade, Ms. Joly said Mr. Wang discussed Beijing’s concern about Canada likely joining the U.S. and Europe in imposing massive tariffs on Chinese-made electric vehicles and ending federal subsidies to Canadians for EVs imported from China.
The Minister said she told her counterpart there is a consultation process going on right now that is being handled by Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland, and “if they want to participate in it, it’s up to them.”
She also pressed Mr. Wang to take measures to stop the shipment to North America of chemicals used in the production of fentanyl. The Chinese foreign minister was open to the proposal that President Xi Jinping promised U.S. President Joe Biden last year to help curtail shipments of the materials used to produce fentanyl.
“We both know fentanyl is killing too many Canadians, too many Americans, too many people in the world. And I think there is good faith on both parts,” she said.
The two foreign ministers discussed Ottawa’s desire to get Beijing to once again allow tourist groups to come to Canada and to let Canadians visit China visa-free. But there was no immediate signal that China will change that policy, she said.
On the larger issues of human-rights abuses, Ms. Joly said she raised concerns about China’s crackdown in Hong Kong, brutal treatment of Muslim Uyghurs and Tibetans, and military threats to invade the self-governing island democracy of Taiwan.
In the Chinese readout of the meeting, Mr. Wang told Ms. Joly that Beijing will brook no criticism of its human-rights records or its menacing of Taiwan, calling those subjects a red line that should not be crossed.
“I won’t go into the details of the conversation,” Ms. Joly said. “Was I surprised by their reaction? No, because it’s a typical reaction.”
Ms. Joly said she went to Beijing to open a dialogue on bilateral and global issues, even if the two countries remain far apart on major ones, including foreign interference. She did not invite Mr. Wang to come to Canada. For now, both countries will ramp up bilateral visits by senior officials.
“There needs to be much more confidence measures, particularly on issues linked to our bilateral relations, to be able to get there. And at the same time, we need to be able to work with China on key geopolitical issues, " she said.
The two ministers did not “see eye to eye” on Russia’s war against Ukraine. China has been accused of providing weapon parts to Russia and buying its oil and gas in support. But Ms. Joly said they did have a common approach to the Israel-Hamas conflict.
“China and Canada and many other countries, the vast majority of the world, I must say, agree that we need a ceasefire, that hostages need to be back, and that there’s a humanitarian catastrophe happening in Gaza.”